Login redirect does not go to URL in field
12 years 8 months ago - 12 years 8 months ago #174954
by viewofheaven
Plus a few threads (bug reports) that were summarily locked with no resolution. Plus CB Team's tight-lipped answers/help. But I do realize CB is now becoming a paid support package (heck, even the documentation needs to be bought). Your business model is a legit thing; it's not a business if you don't monetize and capture value.
I do have a solution (to the bug the OP reported). But like I said, I'm not confident I can use my own codes for free after I contribute it. It's a legit fear. And if you can't understand or empathize, then it's an equally legit reason for me (and many others) to just keep our enhancements to ourselves.
That said, we're all functional people. Most contributors will contribute only if the project is moving faster than they themselves can privately make bugfixes and enhancements. One main point of open source is to spur rapid development. Now, if you can review and commit contributors' corrections and enhancements faster than I can privately go it myself, then I WILL contribute, even if I am insanely jealous of your project's success. After all, code consolidation is convenience; I won't want to administer version-control if I can avoid the admin work!
Take a close look at the above (open source concepts/aims and all), and consider if this is a rant or moan, or if this is something you can use to your business advantage.
There is no absolute rights or wrongs; we can't please everyone. We all hate Microsoft, but they sure do make some products faster and with more polish than we open source volunteers can. We all hate open source fiefdoms, but we still love to rip them off the first chance we get (yes, please put a "Buy" button if you meant for me to buy it, or I'll just choke on downloading more tools than I need, I'm human!).
As it stands now, there's too much protectionism and too little dev speed (requires open-minded team) to warrant my contributions. I do make free contributions, like I just fixed a bug for Joomdle today. But you serving my interests might mean too sharp a drop in revenue for you. Don't just give in to my interests; manage my expectations instead.
Yes, manage my expectations. Just a simple honest statement will do: "We're so sorry, we've put so much in, we need money. That particular help you need will cost you money." Don't misinform your potential customers, even users. Don't let them think your project is half-baked. Tell them the support needs paying for.
Replied by viewofheaven on topic Re: Login redirect does not go to URL in field
My bad. It's just a fear that my contributions will be rolled into a paid subscription content for CB! Imagine having to pay for my own code contributions.sentix wrote: Hi ViewofHaven,
please don't moan. If you have a solution, we would like to hear it - we all enjoy CB as a great tool, so don't be so fussy.
Thx for your support of all of us,
Manfred
Plus a few threads (bug reports) that were summarily locked with no resolution. Plus CB Team's tight-lipped answers/help. But I do realize CB is now becoming a paid support package (heck, even the documentation needs to be bought). Your business model is a legit thing; it's not a business if you don't monetize and capture value.
I do have a solution (to the bug the OP reported). But like I said, I'm not confident I can use my own codes for free after I contribute it. It's a legit fear. And if you can't understand or empathize, then it's an equally legit reason for me (and many others) to just keep our enhancements to ourselves.
That said, we're all functional people. Most contributors will contribute only if the project is moving faster than they themselves can privately make bugfixes and enhancements. One main point of open source is to spur rapid development. Now, if you can review and commit contributors' corrections and enhancements faster than I can privately go it myself, then I WILL contribute, even if I am insanely jealous of your project's success. After all, code consolidation is convenience; I won't want to administer version-control if I can avoid the admin work!
Take a close look at the above (open source concepts/aims and all), and consider if this is a rant or moan, or if this is something you can use to your business advantage.
There is no absolute rights or wrongs; we can't please everyone. We all hate Microsoft, but they sure do make some products faster and with more polish than we open source volunteers can. We all hate open source fiefdoms, but we still love to rip them off the first chance we get (yes, please put a "Buy" button if you meant for me to buy it, or I'll just choke on downloading more tools than I need, I'm human!).As it stands now, there's too much protectionism and too little dev speed (requires open-minded team) to warrant my contributions. I do make free contributions, like I just fixed a bug for Joomdle today.
But you serving my interests might mean too sharp a drop in revenue for you. Don't just give in to my interests; manage my expectations instead.Yes, manage my expectations. Just a simple honest statement will do: "We're so sorry, we've put so much in, we need money. That particular help you need will cost you money." Don't misinform your potential customers, even users. Don't let them think your project is half-baked. Tell them the support needs paying for.
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krileon
12 years 8 months ago #175028
by viewofheaven
As mentioned, a string of scary encounters had skewed my impression. Problem threads locked without resolution, curt answers that end in no resolution, a series of links (when searching for language plugins) that brought me to a "Please Pay Us" registration page, documentation that needs paying for, textbook spaghetti in CB Login codes (as I hacked those). All those tell me these things:
problems in the codebase are not solved
the team only wants users to pay
the codebase could be riddled with similar problems
I've assessed enough open source projects (consultant equipping companies with open source tech) to know those telltale signs.
However, (a very big however), that impression could well be all wrong. The least you can do is:
Say it's a mistake that some language plugin links brought me to "Please Pay Us" pages (originated from joomla extensions)
Hunt down those image-damaging links.
Tell me this is a mostly paid project, and set my expectations and impressions right
Least you could do is sell me something. "Hi, we can solve your problem there, and more. We'll need X dollars from you. Plus here are what else you'll get too."
I'll shut up now. Let's just consider that it's all my fault. I somehow don't feel I have what it takes to contribute to CB, and it's my failing. Sorry about that.
Replied by viewofheaven on topic Re: Login redirect does not go to URL in field
This is the only likely situation for me. Actually, after fixing the problem, I found that this wasn't an issue. Now that you suggest investigating it, I have confirmed the problem is really due to something else.krileon wrote: The login redirect will be ignored if the first time login redirect as configured in CB > Configuration > Registration.
It's not about discussing business model. You will care about how users (especially new ones not in the know) perceive your products.krileon wrote: I don't care to get into an argument over our business model.
As mentioned, a string of scary encounters had skewed my impression. Problem threads locked without resolution, curt answers that end in no resolution, a series of links (when searching for language plugins) that brought me to a "Please Pay Us" registration page, documentation that needs paying for, textbook spaghetti in CB Login codes (as I hacked those). All those tell me these things:
I've assessed enough open source projects (consultant equipping companies with open source tech) to know those telltale signs.
However, (a very big however), that impression could well be all wrong. The least you can do is:
Least you could do is sell me something. "Hi, we can solve your problem there, and more. We'll need X dollars from you. Plus here are what else you'll get too."
I'll shut up now. Let's just consider that it's all my fault.
I somehow don't feel I have what it takes to contribute to CB, and it's my failing. Sorry about that. Please Log in to join the conversation.
12 years 8 months ago - 12 years 8 months ago #175033
by nant
Well first poster mentioned version 1.3 and second poster didn't mention anything.
I assume nothing when it comes to people.
I expect clear, accurate statements in order to provide to the point feedback and assistance. Otherwise, unfortunately I would be spending all my time "pulling teeth" and asking for information that should have - imo - been provided up front.
Plus these are Community driven forums that community members really should support and help each other. We have also posted a Help Us Help You article in our FAQ section that asks for this information before posting on forums. But it looks like that is not working as well as it should.
Thank you for providing your versions.
I didn't tell you to try later versions. We typically always ask people to try latest version of CB as if the issue is in fact CB related, we have to fix moving forward and not backwards. And we do fix issues when they are identified.
When issues are properly documented and can be replicated on clean Joomla / latest CB installations, then the issue is typically fixed very fast and forge patches are usually provided for people who cannot wait.
If issue statements are vague, incomplete, not clear, etc ..., then things take longer and in almost all cases they are caused by other environment related installations.
So, in summary, if you want real action and very fast feedback, then document your issues and help out by doing your homework. Give version numbers, test with latest versions, reproduce in a clean way with only Joomla and CB installed. Provide exact steps for others to reproduce.
The above is 200% accurate for Joomla issues. We have opened many Joomla related tickets that we provide exact steps to reproduce and even then the issue might take months to fix from Joomla end. We even provide suggested patches in many cases and they are also rejected because of other issues (politics, no interest, conflicts with other code, etc.).
If you can provide me exact steps to replicate on a clean environment as stated above, then I will see to it that your fix or some other one we suggest, finds its way into next version of CB.
Regarding other comments made in other follow-up posts please understand the following:
1. Open-source does not mean FREE (as in beer)
2. Community Builder is FREE, but someone does pay for this. Joomla is FREE, but somebody pays for this also.
3. Our model (currently) is to keep CB FREE for the masses by following means: donations (doesn't really work), paid membership levels that provide support and more add-ons, other products (e.g., CBSubs).
I have tried to respond to your - in many cases unfair, but polite - statements as best I could.
Back to real issue now:
If you can provide clear, exact steps to reproduce issue and clean latest Joomla, latest CB install (without anything else), then I will personally open a tracker item and get the team on it asap. If you can suggest fix, then even better.
--
Nick (nant)
Community Builder Team Member
Before posting on forums: Read FAQ thoroughly + Read our Tutorials + Search the forums
For more add-ons and support: Upgrade your membership
Links: Community Builder - Languages - Adv/Pro/Dev membership - CBSubs Paid Subscriptions - GPL Templates - Hosting
Visit my CB Profile - Send me a Private Message (PM)
Replied by nant on topic Re: Login redirect does not go to URL in field
viewofheaven wrote:
Wow, you assume he didn't use the latest CB 1.7.nant wrote: Please upgrade to CB 1.7 and retest.
I cannot replicate your issue.
Well first poster mentioned version 1.3 and second poster didn't mention anything.
I assume nothing when it comes to people.
I expect clear, accurate statements in order to provide to the point feedback and assistance. Otherwise, unfortunately I would be spending all my time "pulling teeth" and asking for information that should have - imo - been provided up front.
Plus these are Community driven forums that community members really should support and help each other. We have also posted a Help Us Help You article in our FAQ section that asks for this information before posting on forums. But it looks like that is not working as well as it should.
I did test his test case, and replicated the problem in CB 1.7. Joomla 1.5.23. I hope you're not gonna tell me to upgrade to Joomla 1.6 or 1.7. I need JoomFish. And I don't think I'm strong enough to follow instructions like "try everything before 1.5.23".
Thank you for providing your versions.
I didn't tell you to try later versions. We typically always ask people to try latest version of CB as if the issue is in fact CB related, we have to fix moving forward and not backwards. And we do fix issues when they are identified.
In all fairness, I believe you must be overburdened by something else, maybe work commitments? And in similar fairness, that's why your users go off forking a branch that works, and didn't bother coming back to you with code contributions.
When issues are properly documented and can be replicated on clean Joomla / latest CB installations, then the issue is typically fixed very fast and forge patches are usually provided for people who cannot wait.
If issue statements are vague, incomplete, not clear, etc ..., then things take longer and in almost all cases they are caused by other environment related installations.
So, in summary, if you want real action and very fast feedback, then document your issues and help out by doing your homework. Give version numbers, test with latest versions, reproduce in a clean way with only Joomla and CB installed. Provide exact steps for others to reproduce.
The above is 200% accurate for Joomla issues. We have opened many Joomla related tickets that we provide exact steps to reproduce and even then the issue might take months to fix from Joomla end. We even provide suggested patches in many cases and they are also rejected because of other issues (politics, no interest, conflicts with other code, etc.).
But enough of that. Buck stops with me. I believe you are a great coder, an efficient engineer who is overburdened with lots of work.
I encountered the same problem as the OP. The fix doesn't seem difficult. You wanna have a try at it?
If you can provide me exact steps to replicate on a clean environment as stated above, then I will see to it that your fix or some other one we suggest, finds its way into next version of CB.
Regarding other comments made in other follow-up posts please understand the following:
1. Open-source does not mean FREE (as in beer)
2. Community Builder is FREE, but someone does pay for this. Joomla is FREE, but somebody pays for this also.
3. Our model (currently) is to keep CB FREE for the masses by following means: donations (doesn't really work), paid membership levels that provide support and more add-ons, other products (e.g., CBSubs).
I have tried to respond to your - in many cases unfair, but polite - statements as best I could.
Back to real issue now:
If you can provide clear, exact steps to reproduce issue and clean latest Joomla, latest CB install (without anything else), then I will personally open a tracker item and get the team on it asap. If you can suggest fix, then even better.
--
Nick (nant)
Community Builder Team Member
Before posting on forums: Read FAQ thoroughly + Read our Tutorials + Search the forums
For more add-ons and support: Upgrade your membership
Links: Community Builder - Languages - Adv/Pro/Dev membership - CBSubs Paid Subscriptions - GPL Templates - Hosting
Visit my CB Profile - Send me a Private Message (PM)
Please Log in to join the conversation.
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